New Lead in EAR/ONS case

Discussion of crimes & cases NOT RELATED to the Zodiac Killer

Re: New Lead in EAR/ONS case

Postby morf13 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:53 am

duckking2001 wrote:yeah, like which of them has done time in prison. For the Zodiac, maybe the guy never did any time, but for EAR/ONS I'd say that is nearly impossible.


When did they start collecting DNA from prisoners? They have not had any hits,so if he has been in a CA prison,it hasn't been since they started collecting DNA
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Re: New Lead in EAR/ONS case

Postby Seagull » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:58 am

Here's a 5 page pdf on DNA collection from prisoners in California from the state attorney's general office.

http://ag.ca.gov/bfs/pdf/69IB_121508.pdf

The practice started in 2009 but DNA cannot be collected retroactively. In other words, if a prisoner was incarcerated before 2009 s/he cannot be compelled to give a DNA sample except under certain circumstances. However, prisoners are now swabbed upon release from prison. So, if Ear/Ons was imprisoned before 2009 in a California prison and is still there, his DNA will not be in the database.
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Re: New Lead in EAR/ONS case

Postby masootz » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:56 am

for what it's worth, the folks on the ear/ons proboard seem to think that article is incorrect and the reporter mixed up the sheriff's department relaunching a review with the fbi's continuing to consider the case open.
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Re: New Lead in EAR/ONS case

Postby morf13 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:54 pm

Seagull wrote:Here's a 5 page pdf on DNA collection from prisoners in California from the state attorney's general office.

http://ag.ca.gov/bfs/pdf/69IB_121508.pdf

The practice started in 2009 but DNA cannot be collected retroactively. In other words, if a prisoner was incarcerated before 2009 s/he cannot be compelled to give a DNA sample except under certain circumstances. However, prisoners are now swabbed upon release from prison. So, if Ear/Ons was imprisoned before 2009 in a California prison and is still there, his DNA will not be in the database.


Thanks for posting Seagull. I hope that prisoners entering the prison after 2009 are being swabbed on the way in, and not waiting for them to come out.
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Re: New Lead in EAR/ONS case

Postby Tahoe27 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:19 pm

It kind of bs, imo. Those in prison lose a lot of the typical rights we all share as free citizens. If someone has committed murder, they should very well have the DNA privacy right stripped--even those who were in prison prior to that decision.
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"...they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs--other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac's doorstep." L.A. Times, 1969
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Re: New Lead in EAR/ONS case

Postby duckking2001 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:30 am

Off topic. But you don't have any right to DNA privacy, you just have a right to protection against unlawful searches. That doesn't apply to prisoners, they can be searched whenever. It's just that it's a relatively new technology so it took awhile to put it into law that DNA collection be included in the search mandate. It's easy enough to make part of the standard intake procedure, that's why they do it that way. I imagine the reason they don't do it to prisoners who were already there is more for logistical reasons than legal ones. I also assume that by "collecting it when they get out", they mean for people who were in prison before 2009, not for people who are sentenced now and having to wait till the end of their time served.
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Re: New Lead in EAR/ONS case

Postby Soze » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:43 pm

I don't have any thoughts or opinions on possible locations or really about the case as I haven't studied it. However, every time I see the hand drawn sketch of that neighborhood, I gravitate towards those buildings in the upper left corner. The first thing that strikes me is this person's detail of the air conditioning units on top of the buildings. How does this person know the location of them from the road? I suppose one could just toss them in equal spacing (talking about the longest building) but he would have to have some knowledge of the units and how they would be placed. The smallest building towards the bottom shows 3 air units with 2 being close together. How can you see that from the road? Another thing that gets me about that same location is that, whenever I see this drawing, I'm always seeing some post about how this might be a school. Uh, I don't think I can agree. I think the 18 wheelers backed into a bay, 1 at the largest building and another at the smaller building towards the bottom, indicate this location might be some sort of plant. Just an observation.

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Re: New Lead in EAR/ONS case

Postby DoctorS » Thu May 04, 2017 2:14 pm

I'm conflicted on that last point. I don't know when California started collecting DNA or what the limitations/exclusions exist on collecting DNA there. I agree with point about Zodiac. I don't think he ever spent any time in prison. With the breadth and volume of offenses EAR/ONS committed, logic would say at some point he would get pinched. But...no DNA matches. Maybe he got arrested before the statue was enacted and I'm guessing it wasn't retroactive? He was lucky no doubt, but pretty criminally sophisticated too. Personally I think he got into a relationship that produced a kid or two and went dormant. What we know about Dennis Rader is even after a prolonged period of dormancy, the urges arise again. Before that happened, I think he died, maybe cancer, maybe an accident.

If he's like BTK and still kicking, maybe a public interest piece in the newspaper or some community meetings might flush him out. I might put the burial sites of the victims in the paper and then stake those places out to see if he shows up.
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Re: New Lead in EAR/ONS case

Postby Seagull » Thu May 04, 2017 2:29 pm

DoctorS wrote:I'm conflicted on that last point. I don't know when California started collecting DNA or what the limitations/exclusions exist on collecting DNA there. I agree with point about Zodiac. I don't think he ever spent any time in prison. With the breadth and volume of offenses EAR/ONS committed, logic would say at some point he would get pinched. But...no DNA matches. Maybe he got arrested before the statue was enacted and I'm guessing it wasn't retroactive? He was lucky no doubt, but pretty criminally sophisticated too. Personally I think he got into a relationship that produced a kid or two and went dormant. What we know about Dennis Rader is even after a prolonged period of dormancy, the urges arise again. Before that happened, I think he died, maybe cancer, maybe an accident.

If he's like BTK and still kicking, maybe a public interest piece in the newspaper or some community meetings might flush him out. I might put the burial sites of the victims in the paper and then stake those places out to see if he shows up.



I found this document regarding the collection of DNA from California inmates. It is widely assumed that because a person is imprisoned for a felony crime that his DNA is automatically taken and entered into a database. After reading this document I do not believe this is the case. It seems that the law requiring the DNA collection is not retroactive but only applies to those arrested after a certain date. Here is a quote from the document--

"Collection of DNA samples from an adult arrested for a felony offense must be based solely upon the offense that was the basis for the arrest.

The January 1, 2009, provisions governing DNA sample collection from adults arrested for any felony offense are not retroactive and so do not permit collection for arrests that took place prior to 2009."

Here is a link to the document so that you can study it yourself and see if I have reached the proper conclusion. It is a five page pdf.

http://ag.ca.gov/bfs/pdf/69IB_121508.pdf
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Re: New Lead in EAR/ONS case

Postby DoctorS » Fri May 05, 2017 2:00 pm

Thanks. I think I was looking in the same site, just a different place. So it looks like it started in 2004 with Prop 69, which had pretty limited qualifying offenses (murder, manslaughter, sex offenses). Then it was expanded in 2009 to include all felony convictions. And you're right, it's not retroactive. So I suppose it is conceivable that EAR/ONS was arrested and put on ice for a while. If he got pinched for a burglary or breaking and entering, his DNA wouldn't have been collected prior to 2009. Maybe he's still locked up. I would think a savvy prison caseworker might be able to connect some dots and place him in the areas during the time of the offenses.
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