Ross and Kane knew each other?

Re: Ross and Kane knew each other?

Postby Craigfitzer » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:38 pm

Did you notice the little hint about possible two Zodaics at the end of this last episode?
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Re: Ross and Kane knew each other?

Postby Zresearch » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:48 am

Craigfitzer wrote:Did you notice the little hint about possible two Zodaics at the end of this last episode?


I have always considered that zodiac May have been two or more people working together...

Though ultimately I am a "evidence man", I will only accept something if it has sufficient evidence confirming it, so while I love to speculate and entertain these notions, I am also very careful to not let them influence my views on the case, and careful to not begin to accept these speculations. The evidence will ultimately reveal the truth.
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Re: Ross and Kane knew each other?

Postby Zresearch » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:04 am

Mike can be a difficult witness...

Something has always bothered me about the blue rock springs attack...

​When the merciless attack began Michael Mageau in a bid to prevent further injury or blind terror propelled himself to the rear passenger seats. After the initial volley of five shots the assailant retreated, but upon hearing Mageau start to yell returned once again to shoot both victims each twice more. The assailant then calmly walked away and got back in his vehicle.

Michael Mageau then stated he grappled for the outside door handle and fell out onto the Blue Rock Springs car park. At which point the assailant sped away, 'at a high rate of speed', from the scene in the direction of Vallejo and Springs Road. This would later be countered by the Zodiac Killer in a letter he sent to the San Francisco Examiner on August 4th 1969, exactly one month after this attack. In the letter the Zodiac Killer wrote 'The boy was origionaly sitting in the front seat when I began fireing. When I fired the first shot at his head, he leaped backwards at the same time, thus spoiling my aim. He ended up on the back seat then the floor in back thashing out very violently with his legs; that's how I shot him in the knee. I did not leave the cene of the killing with squealing tires + raceing engine as described in he Vallejo paper. I drove away quite slowly so as not to draw attention to my car'.
Michael Mageau went on to state; in an interview conducted at Kaiser Hospital on 6th July 1969, with Detective Ed Rust, that he thought the assailants car was the same or similar type to Darlene Ferrin's car, a Corvair, although lighter brown and California license plates.


Look at the section in bold:

Zodiac shot Mike while he was in the car, he even leaned into the car, leaving two casings inside the car, while shooting the couple.

So clearly the entire time Mike was being shot he was inside the car...

Yet:

Ed rust found a bullet under Mike, as if he had been shot while laying on the ground...

ed rust: they loaded Mageau up first, and then got Darlene out of the car, and uh, one of the things I did when uh, they lifted Mageau up...I...I...we had marked uh...I think Hoffman had outlined his body with a crayon...and so I was shining the light down there...for whatever reason, I saw there was a... bullet slug underneath where Mageau had been laying, and I, I picked it up and it looked like a nine millimeter parabellum bullet, they call it
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Re: Ross and Kane knew each other?

Postby Tahoe27 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:05 pm

Probably one that didn't penetrate fell out of his clothes or something.
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"...they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs--other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac's doorstep." L.A. Times, 1969
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Re: Ross and Kane knew each other?

Postby Skyward » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:31 pm

I believe a shell casing from a bullet was found under Mageau, not a bullet.

Mageau is all over the place with recollection, contradicting himself many times over several years, unfortunately not much he says is then useful.

Ross and Kane both fit the profile of loners. It is therefore unlikely they "knew" of each other outside the local serial notoriety? One could claim the work of the other or vice-versa, without introduction.....possible, yes. No evidence of this turned up yet as far as what has been sleuthed out....hospitalizations notwithstanding, those hospitals keep records close to the vest!
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Re: Ross and Kane knew each other?

Postby Zresearch » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:16 am

Skyward wrote:I believe a shell casing from a bullet was found under Mageau, not a bullet.

Mageau is all over the place with recollection, contradicting himself many times over several years, unfortunately not much he says is then useful.

Ross and Kane both fit the profile of loners. It is therefore unlikely they "knew" of each other outside the local serial notoriety? One could claim the work of the other or vice-versa, without introduction.....possible, yes. No evidence of this turned up yet as far as what has been sleuthed out....hospitalizations notwithstanding, those hospitals keep records close to the vest!


No, it was not a casing, it was a 9mm parabellum slug, below are the words of ed rust himself transcribed from the "this is the zodiac speaking" documentary:

ED RUST: they loaded Mageau up first, and then got Darlene out of the car, and uh, one of the things I did when uh, they lifted Mageau up...I...I...we had marked uh...I think Hoffman had outlined his body with a crayon...and so I was shining the light down there...for whatever reason, I saw there was a... bullet slug underneath where Mageau had been laying, and I, I picked it up and it looked like a nine millimeter parabellum bullet, they call it.


Kane does not fit the profile of a "loner".

Most serial killers are not loners, they are very deceptive and manipulative people who often fit in very well with the people around them.
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Re: Ross and Kane knew each other?

Postby Skyward » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:23 am

I wasn't considering 'most serial killers'

I know Rust's account and the quote, yes he is a key figure who in parts of his account created more questions than answers. The ballistic evidence from Vallejo is incomplete but whatever, my point is there are different interpretations.

We disagree on Kane being a loner, perhaps I define it differently. A loner can blend and still be a loner.
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Re: Ross and Kane knew each other?

Postby Zresearch » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:22 am

Tahoe27 wrote:Probably one that didn't penetrate fell out of his clothes or something.


This was my first thought, I mean, mike was wearing several pairs of pants and shirts.

This would be more common with a .22 or smaller caliber bullet though, right? A 9mm is a powerful shot, I mean, maybe if it passed through the car first or something I could see this happening...

Were zodiac's rounds "parabellum" rounds?
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Re: Ross and Kane knew each other?

Postby Zresearch » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:39 am

Skyward wrote:I wasn't considering 'most serial killers'

I know Rust's account and the quote, yes he is a key figure who in parts of his account created more questions than answers. The ballistic evidence from Vallejo is incomplete but whatever, my point is there are different interpretations.

We disagree on Kane being a loner, perhaps I define it differently. A loner can blend and still be a loner.


It helps to look at "most serial killers" when attempting to implicate an individual as one, of coarse there Will always be exceptions, but if you are looking at a potentially innocent person in this manner, wouldn't you want to see characteristics of "most serial killers" relating to them?"

It's possible we differ on definition, but I did not see Kane as a loner.

If zodiac was "creepy" or a "loner" then why would Cheri jo Bates accept his offer for help, or go alone with him? I think his social skills were normal.

Again, most serial killers are incredibly deceptive and manipulative individuals, most of them blend in very well socially, for to do otherwise would cause others to suspect them. It is almost essential for a killer to appear "normal", well, at least if he does not want to get caught.

...and the zodiac did appear "normal", at least according to the kids from the Paul stine scene.

I am not trying to "disagree" about the blue rock springs ballistics evidence to be contentious, or to be rude, I am only asking you the questions that come into my mind when I personally try to accept the story as it is told. ...and these questions should be addressed.
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Re: Ross and Kane knew each other?

Postby Zresearch » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:47 am

...also, you can claim ed rust is not reliable, (though I personally think he is) and that his story "raises questions", but you have to keep in mind that the parabellum slug found under Mike should be in police evidence, not only do we have the story, I'm sure we still have the slug.
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