Thomas Horan

Re: Thomas Horan

Postby duckking2001 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:18 am

In defense??? of Horan I don't think he's doing it for the money. He's probably typed up waaay more for free on his blog than he did in his book for sale.
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Re: Thomas Horan

Postby smithy » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:42 am

glurk wrote:.... Basically, a bunch of obnoxious, pompous blowhards who can't interact well enough with others to be able to remain on a message board, can't write well enough to be an actual author, and so either self-publish or just spew their mewlings on the internet on sites that no one reads, or cares about.

glurk - I hate it when you beat about the bush. Just come out and SAY it for goodness sake!

Mr Thomas Horan? Well, it's a good theory, well worth discussing. "There was no Zodiac killer, just a letter writer with inside knowledge." It's a doozy.
Now - would it be a better if Mr Horan didn't get so much pleasure out of being confrontational? Well, yes. He'd claim it's a technique to get otherwise reluctant holders-of-information to speak up, I'm sure. Perhaps it once was but boy, he does seem to enjoy it. And yes, sometimes his arguments are decidedly elliptical. And yes, he can be a bit too damn smart-arse for his own good. (We all have our faults.)
Uh, what was I saying?
Ah yes! It's still a damn good theory, though. Lots of fun.
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Re: Thomas Horan

Postby Norse » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:25 pm

The very core of the theory is interesting, Smithy - I agree there. But it's only interesting as a more or less abstract concept: "The killer didn't write the letters". Alright - good idea. That angle can be explored further. Once you go beyond this more or less abstract - and in my opinion very interesting - concept, though, you need much more than what Horan or any other conspiracy proponent has provided. If your take on it is "hoax" rather than "team Z" you need, above all, a motive. The hoax theory simply doesn't work without a motive.
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Re: Thomas Horan

Postby Tahoe27 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:59 pm

I could see one of the attacks being committed by someone else playing the Zodiac card to take attention away from themselves. Or, the Agatha Christie ABC Murders scenario...one target, but many victims to take away a direct connection to a closer individual.

We know there were hundreds if not thousands of fake letters (I believe it was Toschi who said thousands)...lots of kooks out there.
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"...they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs--other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac's doorstep." L.A. Times, 1969
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Re: Thomas Horan

Postby themysterymachine » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:44 am

Norse wrote:The very core of the theory is interesting, Smithy - I agree there. But it's only interesting as a more or less abstract concept: "The killer didn't write the letters". Alright - good idea. That angle can be explored further. Once you go beyond this more or less abstract - and in my opinion very interesting - concept, though, you need much more than what Horan or any other conspiracy proponent has provided. If your take on it is "hoax" rather than "team Z" you need, above all, a motive. The hoax theory simply doesn't work without a motive.

I guess the motive is to cover up for someone in LE, tho its funny that the world being what it is and people not being that great in general at total secrecy, that no actual EVIDENCE of anything has come up that would cast suspicion that this is true. I mean, how many people would love to go on a talk show and say, "yes, this was a conspiracy, I know because my ex husband came home drunk one night muttering about a cover up" or something of that nature- nothing. Nothing until Horan decided in his infinite wisdom that it was a hoax.
I don't think he is doing it for money either- honestly from my experience some people are just contrarians by nature and just want to say "no" when everything tells them to say "yes".
And some people just love a conspiracy theory. Personally I am not of that sort. I think most conspiracies hide themselves in plain sight.
Then again the Illuminati could be behind it. Or the Jews. (She says facetiously) :mrgreen:
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Re: Thomas Horan

Postby traveller1st » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:47 am

Tahoe27 wrote:I could see one of the attacks being committed by someone else playing the Zodiac card to take attention away from themselves. Or, the Agatha Christie ABC Murders scenario...one target, but many victims to take away a direct connection to a closer individual.

We know there were hundreds if not thousands of fake letters (I believe it was Toschi who said thousands)...lots of kooks out there.


Can you though? or should the term be 'imagine' rather than 'see'. I'm not just arguing semantics here, your post has me wondering about the mechanics and processes involved. In fact reading through people's thoughts on this thread has me wondering the same. By that slightly vague phrasing I mean our thought processes. Our imaginings.

Why do we do that? or rather why do we do that with this case?

Personally I believe it's because we fall for Z's original and painfully simple idea. To sow confusion. I think we also miss it sometimes too, or fail to take it into account. Mike K said to me a few years back there's a lot of noise surrounding this case and I suggested to him at the time that it may be because Z intended that and started it.

I call it simple but of course, as we all know, nothing remains that way once other people get involved. For me personally I can see that reflected in Z's 'reactions'. It's like he's trying to maintain control over his creation without appearing to be doing that. He want's the attention, he wants the credit but it's a fine line, as he must have realised, between control and chaos. He wants to keep the game going but I think even he was realizing that it wouldn't be maintainable.

It's tricky to look at this case and not get caught up in it. Maybe we have to though to work through it all. Perhaps Z even left us a prophetic message in the Halloween card he sent to Paul Avery. Sometimes it's hard to "See the tree when too many eyes make it a wood".
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"I don’t know Chief, he’s very smart or very dumb."
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Re: Thomas Horan

Postby Norse » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:47 am

Food for thought, traveller.

I believe there are two main reasons why the Z case still fascinates us. Firstly, he wasn't a typical serial killer. There is something decidedly strange about the whole case as far as the murders themselves go. They don't seem to fit, really, regardless of what category you try to place them in. Secondly, there is something genuinely inscrutable about the letters he sent. There are aspects of these letters which seems to blatantly contradict the idea of a clever, devious writer whose main purpose was to confuse and taunt the authorities. Just as there are aspects which quite clearly contradict the idea of a crazy simpleton whose main trait, all things said and done, was his baffling and enduring luck.
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Re: Thomas Horan

Postby mike_r » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:06 pm

How did rg happen to pick four crimes that fit the same power assertive profile and that he knew would not be solved individually lest his hoax go poof?
Kevin Fagan saw nothing in keith powers' tenure to suggest he would invent trip sheet. And who would think of inventing this notion and why? What purpose did it serve powers? How did horan learn what rg's days off were in 1969?
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Re: Thomas Horan

Postby duckking2001 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:54 am

Yeah, this was a weird one. How did that guy "convert" Smithy and whatever happened to him?
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Re: Thomas Horan

Postby ophion1031 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:39 am

duckking2001 wrote:In defense??? of Horan I don't think he's doing it for the money. He's probably typed up waaay more for free on his blog than he did in his book for sale.


Look at some of his youtube comments. He argues with people, says what he has to say and then says "buy my book on amazon."
Dropping bodies in their graves.
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