pivots...

pivots...

Postby Fisherman'sFriend » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:28 pm

been spending LOTS of time with the 340...

trying to find new approaches, had been feeling skeptical about the pivots, but decided to try looking at 340 assuming the pivots held meaning.

working out from there I noticed these extra patterns... just symbols bearing the same position-relationship to the two pivots.

anyone have any thoughts?

p.s., the more I look at 340, the more I feel like the key probably used multiple symbols in multiple places... i.e. + probably stood for about 10 letters, B for a few, etc. etc...



thanks to D. Oranchak for the Cipher tools!!!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Fisherman'sFriend
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:18 pm
Location: NYC

Re: pivots...

Postby Mr lowe » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:29 am

nice find..note each symbol coloured are the same distance apart, same as the pivots.
cheers.
A killer we sort stood there among the dead
Mr lowe
 
Posts: 860
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:07 am

Re: pivots...

Postby Fisherman'sFriend » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:07 am

One more pic -

added the triangle repeat to lower left in yellow and added some curious (more speculative)/similar symbol repeats highlighted in red only.

the blue is just one of the known bigrams.

anyway, just wondering how far out this pivot-centric logic can be taken and what it could mean. The consistent distances do feel interesting when seen in relation to the pivots- Also I'm noticing how the repeats I'm finding - so far - are localized to the lower part of the cipher.
maybe lower half uses a transposition and upper does not?
(So far I buy into the idea the first part was enciphered "on the fly"...
maybe select areas are like mini crosswords?



cheers
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Fisherman'sFriend
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:18 pm
Location: NYC

Re: pivots...

Postby Largo » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:25 am

Hi,

these patterns are posted here:
viewtopic.php?f=81&t=3217

Doranchak posted some more. There are quite a few of them

To me it looks still interesting that they cluster around the pivots
Largo
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:38 am
Location: Frankfurt, Germany

Re: pivots...

Postby Fisherman'sFriend » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:38 am

cool - I had to assume someone already saw these - thanks, will check out the link!
Fisherman'sFriend
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:18 pm
Location: NYC

Re: pivots...

Postby Biz » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:50 pm

For what it is worth, if you follow the "/" symbol across the paper, it boxes in the pivots.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Biz
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:21 pm

Re: pivots...

Postby doranchak » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:02 pm

The "distance 39" repeats line up nicely if you rewrite the cipher to width 39:

unigram-reps-width-39-700px.png


Pivot symbols are marked in red and blue. Repeated unigrams are in green.

At width 78, there are almost twice as many repeated unigrams, the highest at any width:

unigram-reps-width-78-1400px.png


It's very interesting to me that the repeated unigrams "resonate" at twice the period of the pivots.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
doranchak
 
Posts: 1763
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:26 am

Re: pivots...

Postby Mr lowe » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:49 pm

at width 78 all of the pivot symbols are on the same row
A killer we sort stood there among the dead
Mr lowe
 
Posts: 860
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:07 am

Re: pivots...

Postby Biz » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:40 pm

I posted earlier that if you follow the "/" across the page it boxes in the pivots. I was looking at it today and found that there are 99 symbols in each of the sections made by the "/." I think my counts are correct but please double check.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Biz
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:21 pm

Re: pivots...

Postby Biz » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:44 pm

Also there exactly 20 symbols from the beginning of each section to the pivot.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Biz
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:21 pm


Return to Zodiac Cipher Mailings & Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron