The 408, Dripping Pen Card & 340

The 408, Dripping Pen Card & 340

Postby Soze » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:40 am

The other day I made a post regarding 10 observations I made about the dripping pen card. I deleted the post 12 or so hours later believing that I wasn't informative enough about the observations or clear enough in expressing what I thought was a relation to the 340. After some more time had passed I thought I would just give up and not repost. This morning I decided that i would go back to my steganography research but first I would clean off my desktop and perform a little organization. The first file I clicked on happen to be Doranchacks projection of all 4 ciphers in Largos new font (I love that by the way.)

In the post that i deleted, one of the 10 items of observation I mentioned, had to do with the filled in circles. I have this huge fascination with this symbol that I can't seem to shake. My belief is that the card and its artistic blotches were inspiration for that symbol. So here I am with this file of all 4 ciphers in Largos font open on my desktop. I see all these filled in symbols projecting out or standing out from the rest. I, once again, become fixated on those filled in circles.

On the 408 I box in the sum of all occurrences of this filled in circle. I then see that the 340 is of the exact same size as this boxed in region of filled in circles on the 408. Then i notice the filled in square on the 408 located at column 17 row 9. When you look at the 340 falling within the parameters I set in the 408 (boxed in region of filled in circles) you can see that the 340 also has a filled in square (column 1 row 7) correlating to the same row as the 408 but in somewhat different positions column wise. My first impression was that, in the position they were, the filled in square was a marker for the alignment of the two ciphers.

The next thing I noticed was the D symbol on the 340 located at column 16 row 6. The 408 also has a D but a backward one. I then thought, well, If I flipped the 340 horizontally, the filled in square and D on the 340 would end up being in the exact same position on the 408. Not only that but, the D in the 340, would then become a backward D; the same symbol as the 408.

This is all occurring this morning and so it's pretty early in observations but going by what I've already seen I chose to through the cipher to see if there were any other interesting tidbits. The following is what I have found so far:

Note: Keep in mind that I am working with a horizontally flipped 340 aligned to the boxed in region addressed above.

1. On the 408, row 3 columns 6/7, there is the symbols I and backward K. On the 340, row 1 column 7/8, there is also an I and K except this K is regular faced.

2. On the 408, row 3 and spaced two symbols apart from the I K, is a T and an upside down T. On the 340, row 1 and spaced one symbol apart from the I K, is a V and an upside down V.

It would seem to me that the I/K and T/upside down T on the 408 may possibly represent the same characters (I/K and V/upside down V) on the flipped 340.

3. There is one particular instance where the backward and forward slash in the 408 (row 12) correlate to two pluses in the 340 (row 10). Both symbols, the slashes and pluses, are in the same position column wise.

It would seem to me that the slashes I addressed in 408 may represent the pluses in the 340 I addressed.

4. On row 8 of the 408 there is an upside down V followed by an R (column 14/15). That same line in the flipped 340 (in this case row 6) also has an upside down V but a backward R.

My thoughts align with the past examples.

There are other examples where the same symbols (singularly) fall in the same position in both ciphers. There are examples where an O in the 408 would be a filled in circle on the 340, an O in one cipher would be an O with a dot in the other, a B would be a backward B or, a left empty square in one would be a filled in square in the other to name just a few.

I haven't looked any further than this. I don't have time this morning.

I would like to hear what your thoughts are so far.

Thanks,

Soze
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Re: The 408, Dripping Pen Card & 340

Postby Zresearch » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:51 am

Very interesting.

I have some input here, but Will need some time To better prepare.
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Re: The 408, Dripping Pen Card & 340

Postby Soze » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:01 pm

Thank you for the response zresearch. Look forward to hearing your thoughts. I'm still looking over it myself.

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Re: The 408, Dripping Pen Card & 340

Postby Soze » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:08 pm

I've made one small error in my description above. I state "I then see that the 340 is of the exact same size as this boxed in region of filled in circles on the 408." Length wise the statement is correct but the boxed in region is not of the same width. Everything else I state is correct.

The boxed in region of the 408 encompasses columns 2 through 16 and rows 3 through 18. All of the items I listed above fall on the mirrored 340 between columns 2 through 16 and rows 1 through 20.

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Re: The 408, Dripping Pen Card & 340

Postby Zresearch » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:06 pm

Soze wrote:Thank you for the response zresearch. Look forward to hearing your thoughts. I'm still looking over it myself.

Soze


I apologize if it takes me time To respond To posts, I try to get back to every thread as quickly as possible.

I still have some thoughts on this topic, but want to go through and double check everything first to avoid making foolish mistakes.

in another thread "curiouscat" made an observation about the pen pictured in the dripping pen card:

curiouscat said:woolworths also sold a "Fifth Avenue" ink pen, however those were produced and sold in the 1930's, not sure how long they carried them. Pens like that last forever though. People actually collect old fountain pens, I used to sell them myself on ebay back when I was a "picker". Some bring good money. I find it interesting these Woolworth Fifth Avenue pens were the same type as on Zodiac's "Dripping Pen" card. Not sure it means anything though
posting.php?mode=reply&f=97&t=3710


Curiouscat also posted a picture of the pen in that thread. some of the paper zodiac used was Woolworths 5th ave. Brand, and the picture of the pen was a Woolworths 5th ave brand pen. Again, this was not my observation, "curiouscat" noticed it, but I think it may be significant.

Ha, I found some old pictures from when I first began trying to "section" up the 308, pretty useless stuff, but just for fun I attached two of them.
download_kindlephoto-148106476.jpg


In the next photo, ignore the "LI" and "LUV" that are surrounded by dashed lines, the circles around the small dots were what was important, I thought that the small dots signified the end of a string of cipher text, so I would take the symbols between each small dot, and then graph them into a square... it's really not important, as my valuable work with this cipher was obtained by other means, it is fun to look back on though.
download_kindlephoto-148628216.jpg
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