Silly question - what kinda pen was used.

Discussion of Zodiac Victims Shepard & Hartnell

Re: Silly question - what kinda pen was used.

Postby Blind Bat » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:46 pm

Tahoe27 wrote:
Blind Bat wrote:
Tahoe27 wrote:Just state who your suspect is BB.

Tahoe, did you google Pat Nixon and her tear?


Shall I post the name? I'm not afraid. ;)

That's up to you.
Were you stocked?
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Re: Silly question - what kinda pen was used.

Postby Zresearch » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:00 am

joku wrote:
Zresearch wrote:A quick note, made an observation regarding the "f" and the "e" in "by knife"... you see the gap in the "e"? That gap is there because the hand he was writing with got in the way, and the only way this could have happened in the way that it did is if it was being written with the left hand.

It was written with a left hand.

The zodiac also seemed fairly comfortable, I mean, it would have taken time to write that, which is a risk, but it seems he felt comfortable enough to take the time to leave this note.


I don't really think the e is necessarily the way it is because it was written with the left hand. It may have been, but it may as well not (well, I do think it was written with right hand because the dates of the numbers are stretching towards the right and look pretty normal).

The door seems somewhat convex in shape so the portion where "by knife" is written bends towards the underside of the car and is also very close to the ground. I think the openly-shaped haphasard e is just because of that, because the spot is so close to ground. While writing, Z was probably just bending over, facing maybe in a 45-ish degree towards the door. He would have needed to get down on his knees on the ground to reach the lower part of the car to write properly, which he didn't do, so we can assume he was at least in a little bit of hurry.


Hmmm...

I had not considered the convex shape of the door.

In my experiments we took a small magnetic dry-erase board and placed it on the side of a car door, then, mimicking the style of writing, we copied the "by knife" section, several people did this, left and right hand, and EVERY time the left hand posed an obstacle producing a gap in that "e".

Though I will admit that I am not a hand writing expert, I have never studied forensic writing or hand writing analysis, in this case I made the observation because I produce my artwork with both my left and right hand, as well as some of my writing, and I have encountered the left hand as an obstacle in many situations while writing, what I saw on the door looked identical.

...but again, I will admit that I could be wrong.
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Re: Silly question - what kinda pen was used.

Postby Zresearch » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:18 am

CuriousCat wrote:I wonder if they have ever tried to do a chemical makeup of the ink used in his writings. Might be some pen that was only provided to a limited source, possibly even a sole source. Would be worth a chance at this point, if they still could.


The ammunition used might be easier to trace.

I remember hearing something about the "super-x" ammunition having some connection to a military source.

...here is a strange note, Mike Mageau was shot while sitting in the passenger seat of the car, and fell out of the car while zodiac was driving away, yet, a 9mm parabellum bullet was found on the ground under Mike... zodiac shot while Mike and Darlene were in the car, he returns, shoots again, and Mike and Darlene are still in the car, yet someone had shot Mike when he laying was on the ground...

Were the other bullets used in the blue rock springs attack "parabellum" 9mm bullets?

Sorry, I am straying off topic.

...about the pens, in the letters and ciphers zodiac used blue felt tip pens, on the car door it was some type of black marker.

Permanent marker ink is composed of a main carrier solvent, a glyceride, a pyrrolidone, a resin and a colorant. This blend should be chemically unique to the manufacturer and type of the marker...

...though this really would not help you narrow anything down unless the type of marker or it's ink were quite rare.
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Re: Silly question - what kinda pen was used.

Postby Zresearch » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:19 am

Blind Bat wrote:
joku wrote:
Zresearch wrote:A quick note, made an observation regarding the "f" and the "e" in "by knife"... you see the gap in the "e"? That gap is there because the hand he was writing with got in the way, and the only way this could have happened in the way that it did is if it was being written with the left hand.

It was written with a left hand.

The zodiac also seemed fairly comfortable, I mean, it would have taken time to write that, which is a risk, but it seems he felt comfortable enough to take the time to leave this note.


I don't really think the e is necessarily the way it is because it was written with the left hand. It may have been, but it may as well not (well, I do think it was written with right hand because the dates of the numbers are stretching towards the right and look pretty normal).

The door seems somewhat convex in shape so the portion where "by knife" is written bends towards the underside of the car and is also very close to the ground. I think the openly-shaped haphasard e is just because of that, because the spot is so close to ground. While writing, Z was probably just bending over, facing maybe in a 45-ish degree towards the door. He would have needed to get down on his knees on the ground to reach the lower part of the car to write properly, which he didn't do, so we can assume he was at least in a little bit of hurry.


Ignore the E
It's the double LL's that haunts one.


Would you care to elaborate?
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Re: Silly question - what kinda pen was used.

Postby Zresearch » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:32 am

door_kindlephoto-227643643.jpg


I added some small text to the photo pointing out the exact position where the left hand would have become an obstacle while writing that "e"
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Silly question - what kinda pen was used.

Postby CuriousCat » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:53 am

Zresearch wrote:
...though this really would not help you narrow anything down unless the type of marker or it's ink were quite rare.


Yes, it's truly a long shot and I'm not even sure it's even possible to do after all this time. It seems the sort of thing the FBI crime lab would have already done anyway.
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