Ross Sullivan is the Zodiac

Ross Sullivan Discussion

Re: Ross Sullivan is the Zodiac

Postby morf13 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:51 am

traveller1st wrote:
Ham Friend wrote:Traveller is right. They were flipped and rotated. Try and keep in mind, z's writing here is printed and in marker where as Ross' is done in pen and written in cursive. The passage is only ten words long not including Ross and the owners name. It's not like I had a library of Sullivan handwriting to pull these from. Just ten words. All things considered, the similarities are fairly staggering, IMO.


The problem is that for there to be anything of interest in regards handwriting the samples need to be comparable. There would have to be clear, identifiable and repeated patterns. It's great that you have a sample of Ross's handwriting but if it's cursive I really don't know how much use it will be (certainly better than not having it though :) ) There may well be what could be considered alarming similarities in line creation and even 'quirky' and weirdly similar habits in the shapes but I've seen it all before unfortunately. The annoying thing about people's handwriting is that so many times a lot of them contain very, very similar habits and even quirks that you think 'must be' unique to a single author. It's not the case unfortunately.

That's why we and LE require a reasonable and comparable sample to work from. Cutting sections from letters and manipulating them is a no no. It's a fools errand and you can convince yourself of anything doing it that way. All you are doing is matching shapes not handwriting and its inherent habits.


Normally Trav, you are right, writing experts want to compare a suspect's cursive to a questioned doc sample of cursive, printed to printed, etc. In this case, it's always been noted that Zodiac's writing was some sort of hybrid cursive printing,so it may not matter. Case in point, Zodiac's lower case d- it doesn't look printed, it looks cursive
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Re: Ross Sullivan is the Zodiac

Postby traveller1st » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:57 am

morf13 wrote:It has to go thru proper channels and LE needs to examine the book for prints, the writing,etc and that is underway! In the meantime, DNA from a possible relatives is a possibility too. Some things are definitely underway.


Good stuff.
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Re: Ross Sullivan is the Zodiac

Postby up2something » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:50 am

Maybe this thread should be moved to the Ross section.
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Re: Ross Sullivan is the Zodiac

Postby traveller1st » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:04 am

up2something wrote:Maybe this thread should be moved to the Ross section.


and here we are. :D
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Re: Ross Sullivan is the Zodiac

Postby Spiderhawk » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:38 am

morf13 wrote:He has a whole sample. It's a salutation written to another classmate, a good amount of writing. All you need to see if the letter Z used by Ross, is a match to that little Z on the bottom of the Bates letters-that little symbol looking Z, or the think that looks like a 2, or some have said may be an MLZ.....It is a Z and is a match to Ross's Z. That being said, the whole sample laid out would be good,and will be coming soon. I don't blame Ham for not posting it yet-it could be the find of the century if it's what solves this case. I had a chat with him and I believe that Ham didn't forge the writing and it's legit. It has to go thru proper channels and LE needs to examine the book for prints, the writing,etc and that is underway! In the meantime, DNA from a possible relatives is a possibility too. Some things are definitely underway.



interesting developments! I agree the z from the bates letter and Ross z are dead on.

However, wouldn't it only show that Ross might have written the bates had to die letter? it dosnt mean he was her killer or the Zodiac for that matter, correct?
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Re: Ross Sullivan is the Zodiac

Postby monarch » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:13 pm

Spiderhawk wrote:
morf13 wrote:He has a whole sample. It's a salutation written to another classmate, a good amount of writing. All you need to see if the letter Z used by Ross, is a match to that little Z on the bottom of the Bates letters-that little symbol looking Z, or the think that looks like a 2, or some have said may be an MLZ.....It is a Z and is a match to Ross's Z. That being said, the whole sample laid out would be good,and will be coming soon. I don't blame Ham for not posting it yet-it could be the find of the century if it's what solves this case. I had a chat with him and I believe that Ham didn't forge the writing and it's legit. It has to go thru proper channels and LE needs to examine the book for prints, the writing,etc and that is underway! In the meantime, DNA from a possible relatives is a possibility too. Some things are definitely underway.



interesting developments! I agree the z from the bates letter and Ross z are dead on.

However, wouldn't it only show that Ross might have written the bates had to die letter? it dosnt mean he was her killer or the Zodiac for that matter, correct?


If it's a match for the Zodiac letters then Ross is Z. (compare the letters d)
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Re: Ross Sullivan is the Zodiac

Postby YourSecretPal » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:34 pm

To me looks like more of a match to the Bates letters,
But I'm wondering was that some kind of known salutation back then, or known way to write the letter Z.

After watching shows like episode 4, I almost doubt anyone confirming handwriting analysis.
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Re: Ross Sullivan is the Zodiac

Postby snooter » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:57 pm

Ross may very well have been involved in cjb and nobody is disputing how close ross was to cjb....its another thing to put ross as z...we need to get lucky and have something surface that puts ross up north...still ross is interesting and it would not surprise me if he wrote the bates had to die letter or even the desktop poem
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Re: Ross Sullivan is the Zodiac

Postby monarch » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:01 pm

snooter wrote:Ross may very well have been involved in cjb and nobody is disputing how close ross was to cjb....its another thing to put ross as z...we need to get lucky and have something surface that puts ross up north...still ross is interesting and it would not surprise me if he wrote the bates had to die letter or even the desktop poem


We know Ross was living in the San Francisco region (Santa Cruz) we know his brother Tim lived in San Francisco at that time
(I think near the Stine crime scene ?) so he could have stayed there from time to time.

We know Ross was accustomed to living at the YMCA hotel/apartments (there was a YMCA near where Paul Stine picked up Z)

If anyone has access to a Vallejo 1969 phone directory could you look up the address for the YMCA in Vallejo ?
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Re: Ross Sullivan is the Zodiac

Postby Paul_Averly » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:12 pm

morf13 wrote:It's going to be the letter Z by Ross that carries the most weigh it matches the Bates letter Z symbol


Great find and hope to see a full sample soon. But it's no longer surprising. We had a very small sample to look at and we found all kinds of matches.

morf13 wrote:the nay-sayers, doubters, and critics can say what they want, but if it's legit, it's a match short and simple. How many more 'coincidences' with Ross must there be before it's no longer all a coincidence?


We have reached the point where now we find a clear writing match, and we learn Ross was into crypto. However, LE could match his prints to the cab and there would still be people claiming Ross can't be Z... Just wait for it!
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